Author's Note: I'm doing a sermon series on Sunday's about prayer. This week, I'm going to be talking about Jesus' claim concerning praying with other people, or in other words "social prayer". The term made me think of "social drinking", and then the following was what came out of me for a bulletin article. But I decided that it sounded too much like an article about drinking than prayer, so instead of just deleting it, I decided to send it to you for your consideration and feedback. Enjoy.
Eph 5:18 – “Do not use wine for something that the Spirit of God can do better.” – Paul, in Ephesians 5:18 (BRV – Brian’s Revised Version)
You've heard of the term “social drinking”? It’s a word that is used, mostly by Christians (to distinguish themselves in their use of alcohol from those who use it to get drunk), but also by alcoholics (to discuss their own capacity or incapacity to be around people who drink without taking one themselves). Drunkenness is prohibited specifically by the writers of scripture, and therefore, so the thinking goes, is prohibited in the lives of Christians. Drinking socially, however, is not specifically condemned (and is even exemplified in scripture) and therefore is considered “permissible.”
But Andrew Murray observes that “So many Christians imagine that everything that is not positively forbidden and sinful is permissible to them. So they try to retain as much as possible of this world with its property and enjoyments. The truly consecrated soul, however, is like a soldier who carries only what is needed for battle.”
Oddly enough, while so many Christians defend their right to indulge in (moderately, of course) this world's “property and enjoyments” freely, boldly protecting (if not promoting) their right to do so, they oftentimes take issue with the suggestion that they should freely take Heaven’s “property and enjoyments” and expand them, too, into all arenas of life.
Social prayer is one of those things. It is amazing to me how many Christ followers are self-conscious, some to the point of thinking themselves incapable, about praying together. They’ve deemed their prayer life a private thing, which is true, but it is not the whole truth. So, the irony that some Christians practice social drinking in front of the world feeling as if it is faithfulness to Christ will not practice social prayer, even with their spouses, let alone with fellow believers, and yet still feel faithful to Christ.
I’m not trying to say that social drinking “is a sin” as much as I am saying it is an entanglement with the worldly way of life that many Christians are uncomfortably bold about. Additionally, I’m not even trying to say anything about social drinking as much as I am trying to promote social praying.
Why? Because Jesus gave a special promise for the united prayer of two or three who agree in what they ask. He said, “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in My name, there am I with them.”
Oh, that Christians would be more prone to deem their drinking the private thing, rather than something to fellowship around with other believers, and then move prayer to the status of a social thing around which they enjoy their time together.
16 comments:
Wonderful thoughts on this subject. Many refuse to discuss this controversial topic. Thank you. I enjoy your blog so much everyday. Keep up the great work brother!
One of the marks of the 1st Century church was "praying together". I have long said that the weakness of an individual believer or a local church will more likely than not be a prayer weakness. I completely agree with your post. We ought to "pray together" more than we do.
Common prayer is not one person praying and several listening but everyone praying perhaps at the same time or one after the other until everyone has prayed. In my experience it has been a powerful thing to hear my brothers and sisters pour out their hearts to God in an informl, condidential setting.
Thanks Brian.
Royce
that's a very good article, Brian... very thought-provoking!
thanks for sharing!
tim
I have give Tim a huge AMEN! Very thought proking indeed.
We hit on this yesterday in Bible Class because of our study in 1 Thess - "those who get drunk get drunk at night." The comment was made that drinking should not be done to accomplish something that spiritual disciplines can accomplish better. In other words, if you drink to escape or for comfort prayer and scripture are much more appropriate sources. Know anybody who would do better to binge pray over a weekend instead of binge drink?
I may be the only one who takes some exception with your article. It pains me on occasion to watch how uncomfortable we as Christians make others feel without even realizing we are doing it. I have heard sermons and read articles similar to yours that made me feel small and lowly and extremely self concious for one reason or another. I beleive in the power of a convicting sermon, but that is not what I am referring to here. The person writing it never meant it too and would never dream of doing that to an unbeliever or a weaker Christian brother or sister.
I guess my point is this: How do you think this article would make 1) people in your congregation who's voice is never heard in a public forum due to their personality feel 2) the unchurched who might read this blog or your article in the bulletin and have a serious problem in the drinking department or self confidence area feel?
I apologize in advance if I am out of place here. These thoughts came to mind after reading your article, however, and I felt complelled to speak.
Hey Anonymous...thanks for your thought provoking questions.
How do you think it would make them feel?
My hope and prayer is that it would embolden the insecure with new courage that is available to them, that it would tempt all people to transcend personality differences (oftentimes used as an excuse) and find a way to practice Christ's prayer life together in unity, that it would let the "unchurched problem-drinker" know that we are sorry for the insensitivity inherent in our "social drinking" around them when it is a problem for them (although I can see your point here, that the unchurched problem drinker might read it and think I am very intolerant of any drinking and therefore they might not engage with me to find a better way to live).
I'd be interested in your impressions that I might not be able to see.
I think my point was actually your question. Perspective taking is a constant every day struggle in my opinion.
If we can write an article or prepare a sermon and feel in our heart that it is done in love and compassion and that God is honored by it, then, there is nothing else to say.
My exception was not with the article, which I mostly agreed with, but with the possible negative way it could be perceived and therefore how the church would be perceived and therefore most importantly how God would be seen.
quote; "I am trying to promote social praying.
Why? Because Jesus gave a special promise for the united prayer of two or three who agree in what they ask. He said, “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in My name, there am I with them.”
I knew a young couple in the church who had a baby with a hole in it's heart, They prayed, we prayed, the preacher and all of us prayed. but the baby died. when asked why, I answered I don't know, when the preacher was asked he said it was God's will, the young mother said but that is not what he said "agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven." so I will ask you WHY?
frustrated
Frustrated anon.
I know at a time like you described is no time to question what one has been taught , and it is very hard to explain that Jesus did not lie to those young people. The fault does not lie with what Jesus said it lies with those who assume that he was talking to the everyday Christian, he was not. He was speaking to his selected apostles. It might be easy to convince some that Jesus included them in his answer to the apostles who were gathered and had many questions about what was going to happen to them once Jesus was recalled. When we take what Jesus said out of context we do great harm, even to the point of having our Lord accused of lying. Jesus did not lie.
Mt:18:19: Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Now look at the previous verse, do you think that Jesus was talking to the general population here as well.
It might be a little harder to convince , that he was.
18: Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
We need to quit confusing what Jesus said to the apostles as being said to the general Christian, the days of miracles are in the past. When we ask for miracles and don’t receive it, our faith is questioned along with the word of God.
just my opinion sorry for butting in LEM
I'm grateful for the lively discussion. Let me respond (inadequately) to Frustrated, and then to LEM's contribution.
Frustrated - you ask a fair and honest question. One that too many are afraid to step into, I think, for fear of the condemnation of self for "not praying right" making the death of the baby their fault, or for fear of the condemnation of God for "not keeping his promise" that He sent through the mouth of Jesus.
I believe this promise of Jesus contains truth that is so high and holy, so unbelievable, and so rarely experienced by modern day Christ followers, that it was almost dangerous for Jesus to put it into words precisely because of the dilemma that it put your friends in.
Most surface readings of this promise would interpret it as a sort of magic formula for getting out of suffering, or getting what we want.
But my understanding of this promise assumes the absolutely surrendered will of a group of fully aligned (not "perfect," mind you) followers of Christ. For the people who have willingly taken on the mission of God in the world, moving at His beck and call, they can ask for anything they want or need in the accomplishment of that mission and call, and they will not only get it, they will have the very presence of God in with them in their midst.
While this does not totally address the frustration of why God did not heal the baby (I endure this only with trust in Him, hard as that is at times), it does hopefully explain why the particular verse in question is not the promise that the first and casual reading of it suggests.
As for LEM's contribution to the discussion - of course, all of us look for explanations (philosophies or paragdigms, if you will) that fill the gap between our experience of prayer, and what Jesus says about prayer.
A common one, one that I grew up with, is the one you have put forth, LEM...that Jesus gave his first band of followers, the Apostles, a special power that is unavailable to the rest of us.
While it would explain why Frustrated's friends didn't get the result they were praying for, I don't believe the philosophy at all. The idea that miracles are past puts handcuffs on God in the present in ways that I can neither bear to do, nor find any inclination of such a philosophy in Scripture. Additionally, such a view would make the Bible a book of exceptions rather than a book of examples. The whole Bible is full of stories of God interactig with man personally, empowering man with His presence and favor, and backing man up with His supernatural help. To believe that he filled the book with examples of this only to end it by saying, "but no more for you humans. You are on your own now" neither lines up with my experience, my desire, nor anything I can find in Scripture.
While I believe that Jesus WAS speaking to the group of followers referred to as Apostles in the verse I use and the one right before it that LEM refers to, I believe that it was recorded as an example of the kind of fellowship we can all have with God, not as an exception.
I won't expound on what I have learned from people way smarter than me explaining the Jewish wineskin that Jesus was borrowing on when he spoke the "binding and loosing" text here, but suffice it to say that just because someone in our day has found it difficult to find the eternal truth and application of a Jesus teaching for the "common, everyday Christian" does not mean that it is not there.
Thanks to both of you for your thoughtful and heartfelt contributions. May we all come to know Christ more, and become more like him.
Brian,
What a brilliant summation. You are right on the button so far as I can see.
I will only add that praying in Jesus' name is obviously more than just tagging that phrase at the end of our prayers. And, not quiet as obvious, it is also more than praying in his authority and power. I believe it also involves praying in his stead, wanting only what we he wants, and desiring only that his will be done.
To think that two or three Christians who might have not prayed or otherwise fellwshipped with God for the last few days can suddenly ask for a supernatural answer to their prayer is nonsense.
God is no more predisposed to answer the prayer of two or more than for any individual who meets the several conditions mentioned.
Royce
Thanks for your contribution, Royce.
Question for you: Why would Jesus bother with the mentioning of this special promise attached to when 2 or 3 come together if it is not distinguishable from his other teachings that seem to apply to the individual?
Or asked another way, is there any unique blessing attached to social praying promised in these words of Christ that is over and above or different from what is available to the individual who prays?
Brian,
In a lengthy study I have written on prayer I touched on this subject and said the following.
"We can always come to our heavenly Father with confidence because of Jesus. “ Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole” (Acts 4:10). And just as the lame man was healed perfectly through Christ we too stand before God perfectly justified and cleansed from sin because of and through Him.
Hebrews 4:14 says “Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need”. Just Pray!!
I know that at least hundreds of times I have heard someone pray publicly “Lord you said where two or more are gathered in your name that you would be there too and answer their prayer”. This is very true according to Matt 18:19 but again it is not a condition that must be met, but rather an encouragement to draw our brothers and sisters in the faith into our prayers. There is not a hint anywhere that God is more likely to answer if two or more are praying than if one prays alone. James5:16 makes it clear that an individual can get his prayers answered, and the Bible is full of such cases.
Praying together was a mark of the early church and the book of Acts says over and over “and when they had prayed....” thus and so happened. We ought to pray together, in small groups, in large groups, even in a great auditorium with thousands it is good to pray. Prayer is always right and the will of God, but you, by yourself can have regular answers to prayer. The condition is that you pray!"
I am confident that the blessing of praying in groups of two or three, or two or three hundred is for the individuals who have joing heart and mind and covenented together about a matter. Surley God is there when his people are in symphony crying out for His will to be done on earth. It is not that God will be more obligated to answer but that we will be more atuned to kingdom living, being "together".
The broader context of this passage sets forth the way kingdom folks should live among each other on this earth. The key is that not only are we agreeing with each other but with God, wanting what He wants.He is present and will grant that sort of symphonic request of pure hearts and motives.
God bless you as you pursue God's truth.
Royce
But my understanding of this promise assumes the absolutely surrendered will of a group of fully aligned (not "perfect," mind you) followers of Christ. For the people who have willingly taken on the mission of God in the world, moving at His beck and call, they can ask for anything they want or need in the accomplishment of that mission and call, and they will not only get it, they will have the very presence of God in with them in their midst.
Brian, I have a similar, if not exact opinion to yours as to what Jesus was saying, we just see those people differently, I see them as the apostles, you see then in my opinion, as a select few today.
Lem
Royce - I think I follow what you are saying there.
LEM - I'm not sure I'm following what you are saying that I am saying. But what I am saying is that I believe that everything that Jesus made available to the Apostles is available to us today. That everything the Holy Spirit was doing then is what He still does now.
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